As we complete Mary Shelley's Frankenstein, we are left to weigh the competing narratives of Victor and the wretch. After hearing both sides of the debate regarding the responsibility of the creator and the created, choose a side to argue and support.
Question: Who is more responsible for the havoc and misery in this novel? Is it Victor, the creator, or the Wretch, his venegful monster?
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Frankenstein is responsible for the mess that was created. It was his original idea to make the wretch in the first place and he did it for selfish reasons. Frankenstein wanted to make a creature to see if people could be brought back to life and make a drastic breakthrough in the field of science. In addition, he wanted to “observe the natural decay and corruption of the human body” (52). He was successful in his quest, but did not think about what happens next. He was able to assemble a mass of body parts into a man, but after bringing it to life, what would he do with the Creature? This question was not thought about by Frankenstein as he ran away immediately after seeing the hideous wretch he had created. He made this massive being and just left it alone and unsure what to do next. Frankenstein’s action of bringing a being into the world is much like a mother giving birth; however, it is the mother’s responsibility to raise the child and make sure it knows right from wrong. Frankenstein makes the wretch but just abandons it and forces the Creature to figure out the world on his own which is how he turns to evil. Frankenstein is scared of the Creature’s appearance and does not factor in how other people would react to seeing a colossal creature composed of dead body parts. Frankenstein even says, “Oh! no mortal could support the horror of that countenance” (59). He is horrified by the creature and feels others will be too but yet he still stays away from the Creature for three years. Frankenstein says that he cares more about humanity than anything, but he is the one who released the Creature into the world not knowing what it could possibly do. He also does not keep his promise that he made to the Creature in order to protect humanity, therefore the wretch continued to kill his family and friends. In Frankenstein’s final speech he exclaims, “My duties towards the beings of my own species had greater claims to my attention, because they included a greater proportion of happiness or misery” (219). Although he attempted to assist humanity and save it from the wretch, people were in danger in the first place. The creation of a female may have halted the killings by the wretch and give him hope. Instead, however, the wretch not only turns against Frankenstein, but kills more and more people. Furthermore, although the wretch went on a rampage of murders, the whole “mess” was at the hand of Frankenstein because he did not think about the consequences of his actions. Since he lets the savage beast out on his own, his friends and family are killed. The guilt and regret that Frankenstein feels causes him to become sick. In addition, the wretch continues to wander the earth. It is not even known at the conclusion of the novel if the wretch does in fact kill himself. He could easily kill more and more people. It is all because Frankenstein’s ambition led him to do a deed that could not be undone.
ReplyDeleteFrom all the class discussions we have had, I gleaned the fact that many people think that the wretch is responsible for creating all the chaos that happened throughout the novel. However, I strongly disagree with this notion. Victor Frankenstein is the one and only individual to blame for the misery that occurred in this novel.
ReplyDeleteFrankenstein chooses to create the wretch due to his own enthusiastic fascination in the field of science. After bringing his creature to life, Victor makes the wrong decision to abandon him. This is what led to the creature’s loneliness and unhappiness. Victor made him in a way such that the human race would abhor him due to his monstrous physiognomy. He constructed the creature “more powerful than (himself), and his height more superior to (Victor’s)” (102). The creature accuses Victor of not taking care of him properly and not providing him with education or shelter. The creature states, “I ought to be thy Adam, but I am rather the fallen angel, whom thou drivest from joy for no misdeed” (103). He places blame for his misdeeds on Frankenstein. The accusation he put upon Victor is valid because what Victor did was completely wrong. He was supposed to be a parental figure to the creature; however, he abandoned him. It is like a circumstance where a parent abandons a new born child. The parent has the responsibility to teach the child the ways of life and provide the child with shelter and education. The creature learned the ways of life through watching Felix and his family. The readers are able to get a sense that the creature is innocent and that he did not know any better. Also, we know that the creature is not rude and aggressive because he pleads to Victor through an emotional appeal. He is physically stronger than Victor and is able to destroy him in no time, but he chooses to give Victor a chance. The creature states, “Remember, thou hast made me more powerful than thyself…But I will not be tempted to set myself in opposition to thee. I am thy creature, and I will be even mild and docile to my natural lord and king, if thou wilt also perform thy part…” (102). All he wants Frankenstein to do is listen to his tale and owe him what he deserves.
Personally, I think that the wretch was never really given a chance. When he was excited to become part of Felix’s family, they beat him and kicked him out. Who wouldn’t be infuriated if this happened to them? He had no intention of hurting or killing anyone at first but Victor provoked him to the point where he believed that being malicious is the only way he could get what he wants. Victor gets the creatures hopes up and tells him that he will make a bride for him, but then at the end, Victor ends up destroying it in front of the creature. This is what aggravated the creature and triggered his actions. If I were in place of the creature, I would do the same thing.
I know there are such various opinion on this topic and I personally believe the blame is split between both the Wretch and Victor. However, if I had to choose one, I would blame Victor for all the havoc and misery presented in the novel.
ReplyDeleteOne of the biggest questions that arises in the novel concerns what actions should have Frankenstein taken to control his creature. After his fascination in science and the witnessing of a tree being destroyed by nature, Frankenstein became obsessed with creating life (42). How can a man turn away from his creation? After Frankenstein saw his Wretch come to life, he turned in disgust. "...breathless horror and disgust filled my heart."(58) Frankenstein was creating this being out of dead human body parts, how beautiful did he expect it to be? He said he spent two years of his life set on making this creation, and he shunned it at the first sight of it awakening. That is just like a father leaving a child behind at birth. Honestly, Frankenstein put such high hopes into it, that he had to be disappointed. I know many people may argue that the Wretch has some responsibility because he knew everything he was doing. This was what Derrick was arguing in class, that he obviously was smart enough to know what he was doing because he was able to read "Paradise Lost" and learn a language so fast. However, no one was able to teach him morals and values of human life. All the Wretch was able to learn were factual knowledge. There are many things in life, that you just become accustomed too, and know right from wrong, in this case The Wretch was not able to see this. As the Wretch explains his story to Frankenstein, he blames him for not acting as a true creator, like God did for his creation. He also later on in an encounter vents about how cruel society is and how Victor could have possibly saved him from all the harshness of the world. "Shall i respect man when he contemns me?"(147) This is when the creature proposes his proposition to Victor and explains what he needs. I do believe that the creature knew exactly what he was doing, and he even said he felt the pain when he killed the little boy but the whole world could not even look him in the eye. He was like someone that gets disowned or shunned from society, most people become crazy and psycho. Honestly, I believe it was Victor's job to implement care and love into the Wretch. He should not have left him, but instead act as a father figure. Once you give a kid someone to look after, they start to follow their footsteps. If Victor showed the Wretch right from wrong, in a more learning way, the Wretch could have not committed any of the crimes at all. Overall, both are to blame, but Victor should take fault more than the Wretch.
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ReplyDeleteI believe the wretch is definitely the one responsible for the mess. While Victor did not raise the wretch like a parent would raise their child, the wretch acted on revenge and I personally believe that is unacceptable. Even though the wretch claimed he was more miserable than Frankenstein could have ever been "My heart was fashioned to be susceptible of love and sympathy, and when wrenched by misery to vice and hatred, it did not endure the violence of the change without torture such as you cannot even imagine.", taking another person's life is never the answer especially the lives of innocent young children. The wretch's actions are to blame for the mess. The wretch knew what he was doing, and he understood the consequences of his actions. By framing Justine, he understood that taking another person's life was wrong. If the wretch is smart enough to read works of literature such as Paradise Lost, Lives, and Sorrows of Werter, then the wretch is intelligent enough to be blamed for his actions.
ReplyDeleteI believe that the wretch is responsible for his behavior. The reason why is because frankenstien created a monster who can think on his own. Also, the monster went on this rampage to punish his creator. It is clearly the wretches fault that the tragedies have occured. Thus, the monster is to blame for all the mishaps that have occured in this novella. Also, the monster commited these actions knowing that he was wrong and because he knew he was wrong it is the monster's fault for all of these murders. It is like when a child is prosecuted, did he/she know that they were wrong, if they did than there punishment is worst than those who did not know if they were wrong.
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ReplyDeleteSeriously? Seth, you better rewrite this and include direct quotes and examples. Did you not read the instructions?
ReplyDeleteReading the book I can honestly not fully blame either the wretch or Victor.
ReplyDeleteThe first person that needs to be blamed is the obvious catalyst of the whole debacle; Victor Frankenstein. The first question is whether he should have began creating the wretch in the first place. In my opinion, Victor is not at fault for that. Although Victor was delving into unknown waters, it was not, and is not unusual for scientists to do so. The whole process of discovery can be very risky and if scientists never took risks then the world would probably never advance. Where Victor fails, however, is his irresponsibility upon creation. On the "dreary night of November", Victor realized that "the beauty of [his] dream vanished, and breathless horror and disgust filled [his]heart"(58). After reading this I began to question Frankenstein's courage or lack of it in going along with this experiment. I admire when anyone, in any field, whether it is science or sports, does something that has never been done before. Usually, however, these people are able to deal with both the glory and responsibility that comes with achieving such a feat. Victor cannot. He chooses to act like an infant and sleep away his problems. Later on in the novel, he is then shocked that the problems came back to him; making me think that Victor lacks the common sense that everyone is born with. Still, Victor has chances throughout the novel to atone or somewhat correct his earlier mistakes. When Justine is being put to trial, Victor knows for a fact that the murderer is not her, but his creation. He knows he is wrong and feels horrible, but does not act. On page 89, Victor is looking at Justine through the bars of the prison and says to himself: "The poor victim, who on the morrow was to pass the awful boundary between life and death, felt not, as I did, such deep and bitter agony." Victor could feel more guilty and feel more pain than anyone in the world, but if he fails to act then all his emotion goes to waste. Justine is stuck in a situation where there is no way out, and simply "feeling bad" is not even close to enough. At this point, Victor can already be blamed for two deaths, but yet still not all his lost. Victor has the power to at least try to prevent the deaths of his friend Clervel, his father, and his soon to be wife Elizabeth. He could have warned them, or actually create the creature he had promised the Wretch. Nevertheless, he does not because his irrational personality impedes him from doing so. Victor has an opportunity to end all despair for his family and the rest of humanity. All he has to do is create a female Wretch. Frankenstein is on the brink of this before he some how convinces himself to destroy it. All Victor needed to see was the "countenance" of the Wretch, to go insane and tear "to pieces the thing on which he was engaged." Victor is responsible because he never took responsibility for the Wretch and he never took actions to stop it either.
Part 2:
ReplyDeleteAlthough, Victor created the Wretch, it is impossible to not place any blame on the Wretch himself. The Wretch as an individual is able to analyze a situation rationally and make the right decision. I do not think I am alone when I say that i have done things that I knew were wrong, but I did them anyway. This does not that mean that it is my parents fault. The same argument can be made for the Wretch. Right at the end of the novel the Wretch tells Walton, "...my heart was poisened with remorse...My heart was fashioned to be susceptible to of love and sympathy; and when wrenched by misery to vice and hatred, it did not endure the violence of change, without torture such as you cannot even imagine(222)." We see that the Wretch understands he did something wrong, but continues to do it anyways. Anyone who is able to realize this should be blamed for their actions. The Wretch is an individual who knew he did something wrong, not a mindless monster raging around who is incapable of any rationality.
P.S. I fed the fishes at the bottom. (Livia is arguing that the plural for fish is just fish and not fishes. But since they are two species-black fish and orange fish-then the word fishes can be used.)
After many in class discussions about Frankenstein, I believe the person with the most responsibility is Victor Frankenstein. It was Frankenstein’s over-ambitious idea to create a creature to “bestow animation upon lifeless matter” (55). Frankenstein tries to defy the boundaries of human capability by attempting to create life. He even says himself that “life and death appeared to me ideal bounds, which I should first break through” (54). This is his first big mistake and leads to the pathway to his destruction. After Frankenstein creates his wretch, his first response is disgust in his creature. He is overwhelmed with the ugliness and horrifying looks of his creation. When Frankenstein beholds “the wretch-the miserable monster whom [he] created…he [rushes] out of the room and continued a long time traversing [his] bedchamber” (58-59). His reaction is one of his initial mistakes: He fails to take responsibility for his “child”. He neglects the wretch as a responsible parent. This mistake will soon haunt Frankenstein because this response is one of the excuses the wretch will use to justify his rage and actions against Frankenstein’s loved ones. Frankenstein continues to have ambitions about life and death but he fails to pay for the consequences. Among the consequences of “creating” is the responsibility as a parent to that creation. Even when the wretch and Victor meet and the wretch has to remind Victor to “remember, that [the wretch is] thy creature; I ought to be thy Adam” (103). The wretch even asks Frankenstein to “make [him] happy” (103). As his creator, Victor has a responsibility to fulfill this request. The wretch wants to be happy and even promises to move to South America if Frankenstein makes him a female companion. The wretch promises to “not destroy the lamb and the kid...” (148) indicating that he will not touch and stay away from mankind. However, Frankenstein was foolish to create the female wretch and destroy in front of the wretch. Frankenstein set himself up for the consequence for that action. He decides not to make the wretch because the female wretch did not heed to the precautions that the wretch promise (170). This ultimately filled the wretch with hatred and revenge. Frankenstein should have thought about the consequences especially when he decided to destroy the only hope for happiness for the wretch in front of the wretch. It is the only thing that wretch ever asked for from Frankenstein. Soon after this the wretch threatens to be with Victor on his wedding night. I don’t understand why after this, Frankenstein would leave Elizabeth and Clerval alone. If the wretch promised to be with him on the night of his wedding, I don’t see how he didn’t expect the wretch to kill her or Clerval. Furthermore, Frankenstein decided not to tell or warn anyone about the wretch and his intentions yet he claims to have a greater duty to his species than a duty to the happiness of his creature (219). However, by not telling or warning anyone, Frankenstein put his “species” in danger. The creature could have continued to kill others yet Frankenstein’s pride hindered this. He was so blinded to get revenge on his creature that he failed to show any responsibility to anyone including his own “kind”. For that, Frankenstein is selfish and at fault for most of the misery in this novel.
ReplyDeleteI believe that the creature is responsible for the chaos which was created. Many people believe that Victor was responsible for the mess which was unleashed upon society. Victor had specifically put together the parts of the creature; “I had selected his features as beautiful” (58). As a result, it is evident that the creature was put together with the best aspects of any human being; causing him to be of a higher level than anyone else who surrounds him. Even though the creature was inanimate at one point, he soon began to develop his character. He was able to see how people’s emotions and lifestyles were. He learned immensely from the Delaceys’ way of living as well. The wretch was given various presents from the Delaceys, such as “Paradise lost… Plutarch’s lives, and the Sorrows of Werter” (130). Through these books the creature self-educated himself. As a result, he was just as educated as the cottagers. This shows that the creature was able to carry a rational thinking process. He had a higher level of thinking, which gave him a different perspective on life. Once Victor denied the creature the right to have another being to spend his time with, the creature decided the only way to punish Victor for his decision was through the emotional distress that he was to put Victor through; “Beware; for I am fearless, and therefore powerful. I will watch with the wiliness of a snake, that I may sting with its venom” (173). The creature compares himself to a snake and the ability it has to prey on its victims. Through this comparison, the creature states how his revenge is a well thought out plan; he was not just randomly attacking people, he only attacks those who are extremely close to Victor. Through each one of these attacks, he causes an emotional burden which will destroy Victor mentally; causing his downfall. The creature was aware of his consequences of murdering several people. Once Victor destroyed the female version of the wretch, out of anger the creature decided to seek revenge. In doing so, the creature turned to murdering Henry Clerval; in the process of inflicting pain upon Victor, the creature dropped Henry’s body where Victor’s “boat [ was floating a short distance from] the shore where the corpse was afterwards found” (180). This shows that the creature had thought out his actions; he was not acting irrationally. Even though the creature’s plans were well thought out, he had felt “heartbroken and overcome” (222). This shows that the creature was aware of his actions. However, instead of putting an end to his destruction he decided to murder Elizabeth as well. Through this decision, the wretch shows the readers that he disregards what he does to other people. As a result, the people should give very little sympathy towards the wretch. He decides to continue with his destruction showing that he is an individual himself; which shows that he is able to make his own decisions.
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ReplyDeleteIn reference to the mishap that occurs in the novel, Frankenstein, by Mary Shelley, the two characters who are blamed for the havoc and misery in the novel are the Wretch and Victor Frankenstein. It may be hard for people to decide who is more responsible for the havoc and misery in the novel, and Mary Shelley most likely purposefully did this by proving both characters to be doppelgangers of one another. Although, it is obvious that Victor Frankenstein is the one who is more responsible for the havoc and misery in the novel, because he is the person who caused all of it. Victor is the person who created the Wretch, and he is also the person who abandoned the Wretch, and gave him no guidance. Frankenstein playing the role of the creator to the wretch is a direct correlation to the theme of parental responsibility, and in the case of Victor and the Wretch, the lack thereof. Frankenstein has a large responsibility over the Wretch, and Shelley purposefully shows how Frankenstein neglects of this responsibility from the start. Victor speaks of how when the Wretch is initially created and reaches out for him, Victor “escaped” (59) and feared the “demoniacal corpse to which I had so miserably given life” (59). Victor understands that he was neglectful of his creation, and because of this, it is Victor Frankenstein who is more responsible for the havoc and misery that occurs in the novel.
ReplyDeleteVictor is responsible for the havoc which occurs in the novel, and it is obvious that he agrees with this. Victor states, “I had been the author of unalterable evils, and I lived in daily fear lest the monster whom I had created should perpetrate some new wickedness” (95). In this statement, Victor defends my previous assumptions which is that Victor should be blamed for the misery which occurs in the novel because he is the person who created in the novel. In addition to this, Victor is to be blamed for the deaths because of his ignorance of the people who he knew the Wretch would try to harm. Victor understood that the Wretch was alive, and could possibly be violent. Although, Victor was still neglectful of the Wretch, and he did not protect nor warn his loved ones of this. Victor questions whether or not he should “leave them exposed and unprotected to the malice of the fiend whom I had let loose among them” (94). After debating this, Victor ignorantly leaves his family and best friend Henry Clerval unattended, or informed in order to protect themselves. Later on in the novel, the Wretch murders Henry Clerval, and Victor’s wife, Elizabeth. It is Victor who should be blamed for this because both of the murders were done when he left both people unattended. Victor can most specifically be seen as the cause for the deaths when he leaves Elizabeth unattended on their wedding night. Victor did this after the Wretch having threatened him numerous times, and having given him the final threat, “I shall be with you on your wedding night” (173). After which, on Victor’s wedding night, he leaves Elizabeth alone, in a vulnerable situation which the Wretch utilizes to murder her.
ReplyDeleteSome people may believe that the Wretch is responsible for his actions, because of his intelligence, and the fact that he is the sole person in control of his actions. Despite this, the Wretch is left without guidance, and this missing guidance is what may have changed all of his actions so that he was not harmful. Is it Victor’s responsibility to make this happen, and throughout the novel, he does not do this. The fact that the Creature was missing his creator plays a large role in all of his violence actions. Ironically, all of the havoc which he creates are all directed upon Victor, his creator. As a result, it is implied that, had Victor been there for the Wretch, the Wretch would not have been violent in any way. This may be exactly what Shelley hopes for the reader to believe. In the last words of Victor, Shelley purposefully has him speak of how neglectful he was of the Creature. Victor says, “In a fit of enthusiastic madness I created a rational creature, and was bound towards him, to assure, as far as was in my power, his happiness and well-being. This was my duty; but there was another paramount to that” (219). In this statement, Victor is speaking of how he understands of his responsibility over the Wretch, as his creator. Yet, Victor never fully realizes that he should have guided the Wretch in the correct direction. He says, “I should have thought such a creature unfit to remain in the society of men” (96), but he never actually says that he should have helped the Wretch. Had Victor done this, the Wretch would never have had a reason to hurt him, and the Wretch would have understood the degree of his power, and why he should not use it to hurt people. Therefore, Victor is the one who is to blamed for the havoc and misery in the novel.
The fish at the bottom of the page are of one species. They are of two different colors however, they should not categorized into different species. As a result, they are considered fish not fishes[:
ReplyDeleteIn response to Kesiah's comment, the creature should be considered responsible somewhat for the chaos. Even though the creature was just created he is able to learn each day. Like human beings, the creature learned through several steps. "My sensations had by this time become distinct, and my mind received every day additional ideas" (106). The creature was able to learn gradually about his feelings and emotions. Like I stated in my blog, the creature was able self-educate himself with the books that the Delaceys gave to him. The parents cannot be continuously blamed for the actions of an independent individual. Like the children in foster care, the creature had to learn how to live a better life on his own.
ReplyDeleteWhile most people blame Victor for the overall chaos and havoc caused in the book, they do not consider that the Wretch is to be blamed as well. While I feel that both are at fault as Derrick clearly discussed, I feel that the wretch has the bigger blame because he was responsible for his own actions.
ReplyDeleteWhen creating the Wretch, Dr. Frankenstein gave it all the qualities and capabilities of a human being, which means responsibility and reasoning as well. The Wretch was able to develop on these capabilities after spending several months observing the cottagers , mastering their language, and thus was finally able to think, read, speak as a human being would. Because of this, he was able to think rationally and therefore, he also had absolute responsibility for his own actions. It is clear that the Wretch is an intelligent, independent entity as he reads Milton’s Paradise Lost and compares himself to Satan as “the fallen angel” (103). When the Wretch approaches Felix and his family, they were utter shock. As Felix beats him, the Wretch thinks to himself, “I could have torn him limb from limb, as the lion rends the antelope. But my heart sank within me as with bitter sickness, and I refrained” (137). From this, it is apparent that the Wretch has integrity, since he chooses not to use his extraordinary physical strength to crush Felix out of voracious rage. This proves that the Wretch is not a helpless, innocent creature, but an intelligent being that is responsible for his own actions.
Another point to consider is the fact that the Wretch directly declares war on humanity. This is evident when he states, “…I declared ever-lasting war against the species, and, more than all, against him who had formed me, and sent me forth to this insupportable misery” (138). The Wretch’s hatred for humanity is a learned behavior, not a trait that Frankenstein initially granted him. Therefore, no one but the Wretch himself is accountable for any actions following his declaration of war.
In the end of the novel, the Wretch finally admits to Walton that he is responsible for his own actions. Yet right after, he contradicts himself when he blames Felix and humanity for viewing him with disgust. Following his encounter with the cottagers, the Wretch remarks, “there was none among the myriads of men that existed who would pity or assist me; and should I feel kindness towards my enemies?” (138). Taking all of his negative experiences into consideration, the Wretch concludes that he does not have to love and serve humanity; he can choose how to act. Because of this, the Wretch learns that he alone possesses the responsibility to decide how to treat those who have treated him so poorly.
Overall, when choosing whom to blame for this dilemma, you must take into consideration the circumstances and the events that happened. As many have argued, yes Victor is to blame for creating the Wretch and then abandoning it but there are also other elements to take into consideration. The way I see this situation is that the Wretch is a teenager who just turned 18 and thus became legal. The Wretch committed a murder and now can’t run back to Victor (his parent) for help because under law, he is responsible for his own actions. I think that I could relate to this after having my car accident because no one else was responsible for my actions but me. I had top stand with what I did and take the consequences as they came, just as the Wretch should’ve done instead of blaming others.
I have to agree with Derrick on this one, Livia. It is fishes since they are different colors, thus being different species. Just face it, you're wrong. :-]
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ReplyDeleteAfter several class discussions about Frankenstein, the theme of responsibility has been truly emphasized. Frankenstein, as the creator, is undoubtly responsible for the consequences of the wretch's actions. He neglected the wretch after it was created. He broke his promise, even though he might have prevented the development of a race detrimental to humans. However, no other being is more responsible than the wretch for the havoc and misery that resulted from his actions. I belive the wretch is more gulity of causing the disasters and deaths in the book than Frankensetin is, for the following reasons.
ReplyDeleteThe first argument I can bring up to support my position is the level of the wretch's intelligence. The wretch, as any other being brought freshly into life, started learning means of communication with commonly used words such as fire, milk, bread, and also learned about his surroundings by sensation as his main catalyst (115). He made an incredible and a miraculous step forward in his leanring process when he self educates himself by reading classic literature such as Volney's Ruins of Empires, a volume of Plutarch's Lives, the Sorrows of Water, and PARADISE LOST IN FRENCH (130). Therefore, it is evident that the wretch is as intelligent as, if not more than, humans in general. I believe he has knowledge and the ability to identify wrong and right. Therefore, he should have known better and understood that killing people is not the way to go. From all the literature he read, he should at least have got the concept of conscience and morality. The wretch still lacked conscience and morality when he performed those murders. My point is that it was not as if he lacked knowledge, he did not think before he took action. Therefore, he is more responsible than Frankenstein.
I think his attempts to reflect blame partly on human nature is pathetic. He said, "I remembered Adam's supplication to his Creator. Where was mine? He has abandoned me.." on page 134. Moreover, at the end of the book, "why do you not hate Felix who drove his friend from the door contumely? Why do you not execrate the rustic who sought to destroy the saviors of his child?" (224). He is making a sweeping generalization that the whole human species is heartless from a few unfortunate experiences that he encountered. Plus, he is trying deflect some of the blame he should receive for his actions. Moreover, he is taking actions against Frankenstein, Felix and the father of the child by killing innocent bystanders who never meant to harm him. If any, he should be revenging those people directly!!The actions that he took are not only ruthless and thoughtless but also silly and not making sense!
To be fair, he does accept the blame for his actions. He said, "I have murdered the lovely and the helpless; I have strangled the innocent as they slept, and grasped to death his throat who never injued me or any other living thing" (224). That proves that he does understand the concept of morality and conscience. He just did not think through his actions, which was his main downfall.
Fraknenstein's neglect and irresponsibility caused the wretch to perform those actions that he did. However, the person that took action is more to blame for the consequences than the one that caused the person to take those actions.
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ReplyDeleteOur class religiously debated the question of who is responsible for the misery within the novel Frankenstein; the wretch or his creator? Although during one class period, Derrick and I argued both sides of this issue, I still stand by my belief that Frankenstein is the one accountable for the misfortune that took place. Despite the fact that the wretch can not be excused for murdering human beings, Victor did indeed instigate the entire wretchedness and terror of the story.
ReplyDeleteIntrigued by the workings of life, Victor became fixated on creating a life of his own. The passion of knowledge is an admirable one. Though, what became of this passion was not. The disgust that Victor showed for the wretch when he first created him, "...breathless horror and disgust filled my heart." (58) foreshadows the abhorrence that all humanity had for his appearance as well. He was able to put his time and energy into creating this creature, but was so easily distraught by physical appearance that he abandoned him. Victor was irresponsible and also very dense. He had been creating this “monster”, he saw what he was creating. What made it so different when it came to life? His stupidity is what caused most of the pain in this story. It got to the point where not only did Victor and all humanity hate him, but the wretch hated himself.
As the father figure and creator to the wretch, Victor does owe him some kind of compassion. Not only did he turn away from his creature in disgust, but he turns away from any form of responsibility that has to do with the creature. When the wretch is first born, all he wants is love, just like any other child. He learns by observing those around him. His first impression from his “father” figure was neglect and abandonment. Victor fled from the wretch, and the wretch was forced to find shelter food, and knowledge on his own.
Also, when the wretch came to Victor asking him to create him a spouse, Victor became perplexed. He was unsure whether or not he should succumb to the creatures request. That is a main factor: it begins as a request, not a demand. When Victor created the Wretch, he made him extremely powerful, more so than himself. By requesting and not demanding, the wretch was being more civil and more humane. Unfortunately, Victor becomes very emotional and has an internal battle with himself, debating if he should create this female wretch or not. For instance, “she might become ten thousand times more malignant than her mate and delight, for its own sake.” (171) Even though he tells the wretch he will create this creature, and does in deed begin its creation, he ends up destroying it. The biggest grudge a reader of this novel holds, is that the wretch is a murderer. Does this not make Frankenstein a murderer too? Although not a human, he destroyed another species. He was also aware that this woman creature was what the wretch depended on for his happiness.
How could Victor bring something into the world and give it nothing? The first and last time he is decent and almost gives him happiness, he destroys it. “I thought with a sensation of madness on my promise of creating another like to him, and trembling with passion, tore to pieces the thing on which I was engaged” (171) He didn’t think with logic, but with emotion. He triggered the wretch to commit even more dangerous acts after this because he in many ways lead him on. He was also very aware of how important this creation was to the creature. For example; “The wretch saw me destroy the creature on whose future existence he depended for happiness” (171) He knew how this one being would effect his happiness.
Overall I think that Victor’s selfishness and emotions blurred his vision to think morally and justly throughout the novel. If he did not make such rash decisions, the novel would not have had so many deaths and pain. It maybe would have ended with some happiness. Although the wretch is not innocent and must take responsibility for his own actions, Victor is most at fault. He instigated most of the painful scenarios which took place and is the source of most of the misery.
ReplyDeleteThanks for your lively and thoughtful postings. It's clear you've given considerable thought to responsibility on behalf of the wretch and his maker. As we discussed, the debate can be passionate and endless. Mrs. Shelley would be proud. Additionally, I'm pleased to see the debate upon the correct use of "fish";however, has anyone bothered to feed the little guys?
ReplyDeleteVarun and Derrick, I agree with Livia. It is fish not “fishes” and organisms within the same species can be of different colors. One could be “male” and the other could be “female”. For example, Canis lupus familiaris (domesticated dog) come in many different colors and breeds. Look at a dog. They come in different colors and sizes and they are ALL in the same species. Therefore, Varun your logic about “different colors, different species” is wrong (now it’s in your face son!). Also, I think the plural for fish is “fish” regardless if they are from a different species or not.
ReplyDeleteContinuing with the purpose of this blog, I would agree with Derrick on the idea that there are really no way you can blame just one person. They were both at fault for the misery and catastrophe that had happen. I think this is why when people think of “Frankenstein” they automatically think about the wretch without realizing that Frankenstein is the name of the person who actually created the wretch. Although I blamed Victor, I think Livia makes a valid argument for blaming the wretch. It is true that the wretch, like an infant, was sent out into the world and had to learn through his senses. When the wretch tells his story he says, “I learned to distinguish between the operations of my various sense” (105). Therefore, the wretch learns through experience however it is obvious he did not use his experience to distinguish between right and wrong. The wretch, as Livia said, also learns through reading books like Paradise lost and this “excited different and far deeper emotions” (132). However, there are limitations to self education so I disagree with the statement that he was as educated as the cottagers. The wretch was well aware of his actions and therefore should have known the consequences as an individual in society for his actions. Overall, I think everyone had strong points for their perspectives.
P.S. Ms. Silva, I fed the “fish”. :)
To all those who blamed the Wretch….I agree! Victor may have created the monster but he created it with not only body parts but with knowledge. So the Wretch should have been aware of what he was doing. He had all the capabilities of a normal human being and it was made sure that he was put together to be educated. Victor says “His limbs were in proportion, and I had selected his features as beautiful. Beautiful!--Great God! His yellow skin scarcely covered the work of muscles and arteries beneath; his hair was of a lustrous black, and flowing; his teeth of a pearly whiteness.” The Wretch may have been compared to a new born child; however, he quickly develops the traits needed to understand everything. We can see this occurring at the De Lacey’s house. Things were going well with the blind man when Felix, Agatha, and Safie saw the Wretch. Felix beats the Wretch onto the ground and hits him violently and fearfully with a stick. This should have angered the Wretch and should have caused him to fight back yet in the end, he leaves the cottage; “I could have torn him limb from limb, as the lion rends the antelope. But my heart sunk within me as with bitter sickness, and I refrained. I saw him on the point of repeating his blow, when, overcome by pain and anguish, I quitted the cottage and in the general tumult escaped unperceived to my hovel.” This proves his intelligence. In the end, while mourning over Victor’s dead body, he realizes his mistakes. It shouldn’t have taken this long to realize he had no real reason for killing all of these people. Revenge and anger took over and blocked the truth.
ReplyDeleteFor those who blamed Frankenstein: If you guys were the parent, would you take responsibility for someone your kid killed? Think about it that way…
Varun, I agree with your statement that both are at fault, but I disagree that the Wretch was more responsible than Frankenstein. The Wretch did not ask to be created and because Victor abandoned him, the Wretch was left alone to realize the abhorrence that society felt for him. The murdering and violence may have been a bit much but the Wretch knew nothing better because he lacked guidance and leadership. Victor started the whole “mess” and the Wretch makes a reasonable statement when he asks Victor, “Why did you form a monster so hideous that even you turned from me in disgust?” (133). None of this would have happened if Victor put more thought into his plan. Also, he made a Creature that he cannot even bare to look at so how would he think society would react? It is understandable that a Creature with no support or loved ones would turn against those who caused his unhappiness. The Wretch, although intelligent, was alone and all of the knowledge in the world would not save him. Victor needed to take the responsibility for the Creature because he was the one that created it. The Wretch declared war on mankind because he had nothing, but that may not have been the case had Victor not abandoned him. He would have had at least one companion (Victor) or even if Victor would have complied to make a female Creature. Anything would have been an attempt to end the destruction of the Wretch. Although the Creature gained the remarkable ability to read Paradise Lost (still hard to believe) and other works he is no older than a young child. He was made to look huge and old, but he was really only a child in the context of birth to death. Therefore, as a parent is responsible for his child, Frankenstein is responsible for the Wretch. Additionally, Varun I appreciate the connection to your life; how one has to deal with the consequences of their actions. You are very strong to have taken the blame of your own actions. Too bad Victor and the Wretch blamed others for their torture and it unfortunately it led to their own demise. (OOOOOO fish I want to feed them!!!!!!!!!!!!)
ReplyDeleteIn class we came up with different arguments on whether the wretch or Frankenstein is responsible for all the atrocities happened. Although it may seem that they are both equally guilty, personally, I believe more of the responsibility relies on Victor as the creator.
ReplyDeleteAlthough victor is viewed as the tragic hero of the story, in my opinion he is nothing less than the instigator of the destruction caused by the wretch. Frankenstein is a scientist of power, he posses that ambition to create something that no one has attempted before and for that, he deserves reverence. However, just as all tragic heroes, that ambition becomes one of his flaws. Every scientist knows well that any experiment has outcomes whether they are positive or negative, and these must be anticipated. I believe Victor's ambition blinds him to the consequences the creation of the wretch might bring. He's so full of that thirst for knowledge and becoming the greatest scientist of the time that he even glorifies the wretch's body right after bringing it to life. “His limbs were in proportion, and I had selected his features as beautiful. Beautiful! – Great God! His yellow skin scarcely covered the work of muscles and arteries beneath” (58). Besides Victor's ambition, his key flaw that leads to his downfall is his irresponsibility. Throughout the book there are several instances when Victor hides his own guilt and shows his true colors as the coward he is. Not only does he refuse to admit his guilt for abandoning his creation but he seems unable to even name himself as creator. The death of Justine and all his friends in general are clear examples that reflect Frankenstein’s lack of responsibility. It doesn’t even take the death of somebody to make him conscious accept his guilt, which by the way, he never does. Last and foremost I want to point out that Frankenstein never really did anything to sort of help or satisfy the wretch in any way. Frankenstein’s emotions take over his reason and disable any attempt to “comfort” the wretch, such as the creation of its ‘partner’. Victor’s ideas instead, fill him with revenge and he does not care what the wretch does as long as he can get vengeance. I see this as his most important flaw, the fact of losing reason and letting his feelings consume him, consequently provoking the death of most of his friends. Lastly, it is true the wretch has self-judgment and recognizes what he has done is wrong, but he doesn’t really experience many feelings but hatred. His experience with the cottagers teaches him admiration for humans and somewhat of sympathy, but in reality that is the closest he gets from feeling loved. The wretch ultimately blames Victor for have taken that feeling from him. Victor shouldn’t have ran away and at least raised the wretch until it has a more complex mind.
Mitchell, I agree with what you say and believe you give a very solid argument. Yes, Victor as a creator, is responsible for the Wretch’s actions but don’t you think the Wretch is to be blamed as well? I mean, think about it. Don’t you think the Wretch is an individual who is responsible for his own actions? Let’s suppose that you made a terrible mistake and ended up murdering Soe; would you blame yourself for your actions or would you blame your parents who got you mad in the first place? Yes, your parents may hold some responsibility but don’t you think that on the most part you’re responsible for your own actions? I think the Wretch is just trying to hide behind the curtains because he continuously contradicts himself in the statements he makes. An example of this is page 122, where he states, “For a long time I could not conceive how one man could go forth to murder his fellow,...but when I heard details of vice and bloodshed, my wonder ceased, and I turned away with disgust and loathing”. Initially the Wretch was disgusted with the notion of murder but ask yourself, was he really? If he were really disgusted with murder, would he go ahead and kill Clerval and Elizabeth after knowing the consequences of committing a murder? So although I agree with what you’re trying to say Mitchell, I still feel that you can only blame Victor up to a certain point; the rest is on the Wretch. And so as Jurel said to Superman in the Fortress of Solitude, “with great power comes great responsibility.”
ReplyDeleteSheena I see why you and other people believe that the wretch is more responsible upon the idea of having a reasonable mind and complex knowledge. At the same time, I find really interesting that you compare this dilemma to a father-child relationship. However, there are several points that we discussed and that puts in question whether all that credibility falls in the Wretch, or does it fall in Victor as creator? Well, first of all, like you said in the end, would I take responsibility for something my kid did, like killing somebody? Yes, of course, that is what it takes to be a parent, assume charge for what your kid does, because think about it, who educated him and led him to act that way? Kids behave based on the education and treat they receive from whoever raised them. Parallel to that, the Wretch behaves in a very aggressive way because no one has really educated him! And that, is Victor's irresponsibility. He should have stayed with the wretch and start developing its mind and teach him morals. It is because that lack of guidance that the wretch does not feel guilty for having killed Victor's friends, he developed feelings on his own, and hatred became the first one. Furthermore, any other attempt the wretch has to learn about a different feeling is shut down by everybody and specially by Victor. The cottagers scene is the closest the Wretch gets to know what 'love' is, and instead of really showing him that feeling, Victor just makes him more furious, going back to its one and only pure emotion he has developed, on his own, hatred. Knowledge does not have anything to do with emotions. The wretch could have become the smartest creature on earth and learned many other languages, but knowledge is a very separate thing than feeling. One does not behave upon what one has read or learned, but rather how one feels.
ReplyDeleteAnd ppls you are all wrong. It's called pescados PERIOD. >=)
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteAll of the arguments were presented in an amazing manner. The responses have given me an abundant amount of evidence as to the fact that both the Wretch and Victor Frankenstein are responsible for the havoc and misery which occurs in the novel. Despite this, I continue to stand by my previous thesis that it is the Victor who should receive the most blame for the violence and problems which occur in the novel. I find that Soe had a well-written statement which gives the correct evidence that supports his belief for the Wretch to be responsible for the havoc which occurs in the novel. Although, I find that his well defended arguments can also be contradicted. The specific argument which I found intriguing for Soe to speak upon is the fact that the Wretch was intelligent, which is obvious for his ability to read John Milton’s Paradise Lost, in French. I believe that Shelley purposefully made the Wretch so seemingly intelligent in order to express how despite his intelligence, he is still capable of doing wrong and creating mayhem because he did not have any guidance when he was initially created. In addition to this, directly after reading the difficult novels, the Wretch questions himself by wondering, “Who was I? What was I? Whence did I come from? What was my destination? These questions continually recurred, but I was unable to solve them” (131). This directly proves that despite the Wretches intelligent, he is still unsure of many different important issues involving himself. These are the topics which Victor should have spoken to him about, but, Victor was neglectful. So, despite the Wretch’s supposed intelligence, he is proven not to be intelligent as a result of many missing information which cannot be read. To continue this further, this is the exact topic which Jacey attempted to touch upon in class when speaking of how the Wretch does not have any knowledge which would be necessary to survive life outside of any classroom. It is precisely what she was trying to sa which also helps to negate Soe's, and many other people's argument of how the Wretch's intelligence should have prevented him from making such seemingly simple mistakes. Mary Shelley pusposefully characterizes the Wretch as intelligent, without any knowledge of morals, values, or ethics, because she was expressing that even the most seemingly smart people are capable of making horrible mistakes if they are not guided in the proper direction, which Victor Frankenstein should have done.
ReplyDeleteFirst off Varun, most of us did consider the fact that the wretch is to be blamed, we just feel that Victor is more responsible than the wretch. I agree with the fact that the wretch was able to develop mentally, but you pointed out “after several months.” Do you think that if he were guided by his creator, he would have learned at a much quicker rate and also have had different views. Most children have the same morals as their parents. Personally, I know that I have a lot of the same ethics as my mom because I’ve learned from her. If Victor “raised” the wretch rather than the the wretch teaching himself maybe he would not have had such a different perspective on things. Also with guidance and the presence of his creator, he would have experienced the love he so desperately wanted. Also, when you speak of the wretches unfortunate encounter with Felix, you are not looking at it from both perspectives. “I could have torn him limb from limb, as the lion rends the antelope. But my heart sank within me as with bitter sickness, and I refrained” (137) He is like any other person, he feels that sudden hatred where he wants to commit a devious act, but he held himself back. Situations like this occurred earlier on in the story. If you take a closer look, the more he encounters Victor, the less he is able to restrain himself from committing these “evil” acts. Personally, I feel that Victor is the instigator of the entire novel. Also, we did not hear the wretch’s story until his closing speech. Before that, we were hearing the wretch’s life through through Victor’s perspective. The wretch took responsibility but also made a point to recognize humanities role in viewing him with disgust. It is true that they rejected him in life and they pushed him to extreme limits. He is aware that what he did is wrong, and takes responsibility, but he wants it to be known that these people were also not right for what they did to him. He took more of a responsibility in his closing speech than Victor did. I’m sorry about your accident Varun, but I’m pretty sure you didn’t consult your car to drive in that weather, and I'm sure that the ice wasn’t pissed about being slippery further resulting in your accident. ;)
ReplyDeleteMaddy made a very good point that Victor was putting humanity in danger by creating the wretch. I totally agree with you but i dont believe that Frankenstein in the first place did anything to "save humanity from the wretch". It was his own selfish desire to create something great and be known to humanity. He had a myriad of chances to warn his family members and the people around him about the wretch; however he chose not to. This is one of his major faults besides the creation of the wretch. Also, even though Frankenstein says that "he cares about humanity more than anything", I dont believe he does. Why would you create something in danger to humanity if you care so much? He made the wretch strong and huge. In addition, The creature could easily kill humans.
ReplyDeleteSarah's argument is very strong and changed my perception a little bit, but i still blame Frankenstein. It is true that the wretch knew that what he was doing was wrong, but Frankenstein provoked him to the point where he had no choice but to kill his creator's loved ones. He deprived the creature of shelter, education, and even a family. The wretch also warned Frankenstein several times. So, its not the creature's fault!